Where does Abby fit?

[colorguard28.livejournal.com]

OK, I have a question. And I'm not trying to start a flame war, just get some understanding of a characterization.

It seems like a lot of the Tim-centric fics I read, whether McNozzo or otherwise, are more anti-Abby than NCIS fics in general. And the ones that drive me crazy tend to be slash fics with Tim, usually paired with Tony. I know since Abby/McGee are canon, at least past canon, that she has to be dealt with somehow. But why take the "Abby abuses poor Timmy horribly" route? Although obviously there are lots of great T2 fics out there where Abby is their best friend, so not everybody goes that path.

Maybe it's just me, but I don't see evil Abby (no matter how many spikes on her collar). Anybody have any thoughts on where evil/selfish Abby comes from? Or am I just too much of a McAbby fan to be able to see it even when I'm putting Tim with Tony.

Comments

[beautybecks.livejournal.com]

There are times Abby can get away with things no other person can because she plays the 'Daddy's little girl' role so well, she has a certain hold over Gibbs that only a daughter can have over her father.

Then there are times she promises to let Tim see her new tattoo or hints at something a little sexual, just to get McGee to do what she wants.

Then there are various other men: I'm thinking of the guy who retasked a satellite for her in S01E11. Also, the little man who sure ended up breaking her heart because she couldn't have him, but is shown using his equipment and when she's turn he's talking to her but then he looks around and she's gone.

She's even flirted with Ducky and has tried to find out what underwear Gibbs wears! (I really don't blame her for either of those, but still) That's the worse thing, she flirts without the intention of following through.

I don't think she's terrible, I know everybody has flaws and they can't get things immeadiately. It's the fact everybody in cannon seems to think she's perfect, even though she has said hurtful things to Ziva and Tim and never even apologised. She has a blindspot when it comes to others (often played for laughs, like when she hugs somebody who is injured and often hurts them more). Everybody has blind spots. Most people try to learn theirs and over come them. Abby hasn't.

[soupytwist.livejournal.com]

I don't see any of those things in that way. I mean, to be honest, from what you've said here it sounds like Abby isn't allowed to ask for anything from or be anything other than uninvolved acquaintances with men lest she leads them on into thinking she wants to sleep with them.

I don't think that's at all fair. If someone likes her more than she likes them, then that's no character indictment of Abby, and none of the men you've mentioned showed any sign of thinking it was. If Abby flirts, well, why shouldn't she? There's nothing bad about that. She doesn't have to want to sleep with someone to flirt with them; no-one does. Flirting, even if she had no intention of "following through", is not a bad thing, and I am very bothered by the idea that it is. I can give you links and discuss that more, if you like.

And Abby's hardly a heartbreaker anyway! Her and Tim did have a sexual relationship, but that hardly means that any future comment she might make about anything vaguely her-body-related is out of bounds or is breaking Tim's heart or something. All indications are that Tim and Abby have a very healthy and affectionate friendship with a little bit of leftover sexual tension/posessiveness from their relationship days, that they work out in their own way. Gibbs and Ducky don't seem to mind the incidents you cite, either. As for the others you talk about, I don't think those are Abby's responsibility: she's not lied or purposely hurt anyone. I'd also say that those incidents are hardly worse than similar incidents the guy members of the team have had with random women. Tony and Jeanne, I think, is a much more damning situation - or even Tim and the polygraph test lady. If Abby's behaviour is worth condemning, then so are those.

As it happens, I think they're all fine. Imperfect, yes, but that's not the same thing.

I don't think they think she's perfect, either. Abby admitted she was wrong in calling Ziva cold and emotionless; that episode ended with them having a big moment of Abby learning and growing from a mistake she made. Again, she's not perfect, I wouldn't argue any of the team are, but she does grow and learn and change.

[beautybecks.livejournal.com]

Love your icon. The fantastic Stephen Fry.

btw, I am mildly autistic and mostly asexual. Human relationships already confound me, the idea of flirting especially so. I take things literally and find myself drawn to Tim because of his honesty. Maybe Abby doesn't lie, but she is so up and down and hardly ever consistant with her attitude and behaviour and I find that a little scary.

Yes, Tony's behaviour with Jeanne is complex and is rife with flaws and almost corrupt behaviour. Tony paid the price for that.

Tim was sexually harrased by the polygraph lady and he was still forced to interact with up to the point he saw past the fact she abused her power to find out if he had a girlfriend or not, he gets to the point where he wants to ask her out and is then turned down. I can't find myself damning him for that.

Yes, people have behaviour that is worth condemning, everybody has flaws: Gibbs can get angry and even smacks his team, Ducky can ramble on when time is of the essence, Palmer makes insensitive jokes, Tony likes to play the role of womaniser, Tim often spends more time with computers than with real people.

Abby is allowed to flirt. Her role on the show seems to be fetish fuel, to such an extent that that is ALL I see of her. She is VERY good at her job, amazing. I'm all for expressing herself with the way she dresses and the way she acts. I just wish everything wasn't about sex. I know it's not but that's all I see and it drives me crazy!

Why would anybody want to hurt Abby, it's not like she's Tony, right? That's what the episode where Abby has a hit out on her continually asks. I don't want Abby dead, I don't want Abby hurt, I just wish her relationships were a bit more balanced. You may think they are, that's your point of view. I view any relationship with Abby as an unstable one because Abby's personality can change in a split second.

Abby is unpredictable. As a writer and as a person, that is what scares me. I don't hate her for it. It's my problem. It's my point of view.

[soupytwist.livejournal.com]

I love Mr Fry a lot, yay. :)

Abby's unpredictability is definitely something that can be scary or difficult as well as positive. I love it, as I think it's quite true to the way people can have moods and opinions which shift a lot, but I can completely see why that might be offputting to other people!

Tony did pay the price for his behaviour with Jeanne. I still don't think Abby's behaviour requires any 'price' to be paid, though. I still don't think flirting - even flirting without intending to go any further than that - is in any way bad or something needing punishment. You're saying you don't blame Abby for you not liking her (which is your total right, of course), but you've consistently also been saying that Abby's flirting is worthy of condemnation/less liking from fandom. I... don't see how those two things are compatible. That is blaming Abby for potentially having someone like her better than she likes them, or for "making" someone do something, even though the relevant decisions aren't Abby's to make, but the person's. For example: say Gibbs does something for Abby because Abby asked him. Even if she did deliberately turn on the charm, she didn't force Gibbs to do anything. Gibbs made the decision. But you put that as Abby being manipulative, which is a different thing than you just saying you don't like it.

I also don't think she's fetish fuel. There can be some elements of that - it's a rare female character on TV who doesn't get some lingering camera shots, and someone as unusual looking as Abby tends to get them in a fetishistic way. But on the show she is not played as a fetish object; for good or bad she does her own thing and has her own life and makes her own choices. Then again I don't think it's all about sex - there's more than on some crime drama shows, but not that much, so we clearly differ there. :)