Where does Abby fit?

[colorguard28.livejournal.com]

OK, I have a question. And I'm not trying to start a flame war, just get some understanding of a characterization.

It seems like a lot of the Tim-centric fics I read, whether McNozzo or otherwise, are more anti-Abby than NCIS fics in general. And the ones that drive me crazy tend to be slash fics with Tim, usually paired with Tony. I know since Abby/McGee are canon, at least past canon, that she has to be dealt with somehow. But why take the "Abby abuses poor Timmy horribly" route? Although obviously there are lots of great T2 fics out there where Abby is their best friend, so not everybody goes that path.

Maybe it's just me, but I don't see evil Abby (no matter how many spikes on her collar). Anybody have any thoughts on where evil/selfish Abby comes from? Or am I just too much of a McAbby fan to be able to see it even when I'm putting Tim with Tony.

Comments

[jack-infinitude.livejournal.com]

I agree 100% that Abby isn't evil, and that having an anti-Abby story doesn't really make sense. There are definitely situations where she can be empty headed, thoughtless, and even downright selfish, but a situation where Tim could be romantically happy definitely wouldn't be one of them. I have my issues with Abby, but this definitely isn't one them.

[harem-priestess.livejournal.com]

Exactly. See, if I let myself, I'd have MASSIVE issues with Tony. I've always thought that if I knew Tony in real life I'd totally like him and want to hang out, but I'd also hit him a lot like Kate did, and I'd probably find ways to superglue him to things. But to make him such an asshole like some people do? That just doesn't make sense. He's got a good heart, like Abby. It's just he's a jackass, where Abby's sometimes a bit too immature.

God I love that icon :)

[jack-infinitude.livejournal.com]

Seeeee, you get it! It's all about doing right by the characters, doing them justice, allowing their positive qualities to triumph over their not so positive ones. Even if you're like me, and you're not the, ahem, biggest Abby fan in the world, that doesn't mean that she has to be bashed and perverted into something she isn't. Whenever you do something like making Abby a first-class witch or turning Tony into a heartless jerk...you're denying the characters their chance to be great. You're also denying yourself, as a writer, the chance to expand your ability, because if you can take a character that you don't like and still make them IC and awesome so that the fans of that character can love him/her? Then you know you're capable of something even better than fanfic.

Which is actually why, when it comes to characters being OOC, I feel more sorry for the author than anything else. Because it means that writer is still incapable and immature and can't see past the end of their own nose.

It's a great icon. <3

[harem-priestess.livejournal.com]

Which is actually why, when it comes to characters being OOC, I feel more sorry for the author than anything else. Because it means that writer is still incapable and immature and can't see past the end of their own nose.

See, you might be a bit more magnanimous than I. In some cases I just see it as pathetic. :) (Hey, I try not be judgmental, but this particular aspect of fandom just really pisses me off :)

[jack-infinitude.livejournal.com]

Well, I used to get really worked up about OOC, but then I stopped and asked myself: "Who's really suffering here? You, who knows what the character is really like? Or the author, who is too assbackwards to know better?" And I have a really big pity-streak, and so then that kicked in....

[harem-priestess.livejournal.com]

I don't mind some OOC. Some may say our writing Tony as doing the dirty with Tim is wildly OOC. And my biggest problem with my own writing is I'm worried they're a bit OOC. But my problem is when they write Abby as some super jealous girl willing to do anything to have her way, or Tony so completely an asshole with no empathy whatsoever or, and this is my BIGGEST pet peeve, Tim feeling so put upon and alienated and abused and that that somehow makes him the angel of the show. It's ridiculous.

Though, I must admit to reading some stories where this is more or less the case because I like the writer and I like a bit of drama. Okay a lot of drama. I just have to ignore the issues I've stated above.

Then there's the Gibbs/DiNozzo community. There are SO MANY problems I have with portions of that world that I actually can't really go there anymore. Different issues, but relatively the same sentiment.

Though in the end, I believe people should write whatever they want if it makes them happy. Considering some of the things I've written in my life, and I'm sure most of us have written, I have no room to call people on their issues. Love to discuss them though :)

[jack-infinitude.livejournal.com]

Yeah, the way out there stuff.... arrrrgh D:

Though, I must admit to reading some stories where this is more or less the case because I like the writer and I like a bit of drama.

We all have our guilty pleasures. ;D

Though in the end, I believe people should write whatever they want if it makes them happy.... Love to discuss them though :)

Yeah! :) After all, so long as there's someone out there that can enjoy it, does it matter what we think? After all, I'm sure somewhere there's someone laughing at us for even talking about this. We are all fodder for someone's gossip, ahahaha.

[jack-infinitude.livejournal.com]

If I may ask, how has McGee been an ass to Tony?

[schtroumph-c.livejournal.com]

Oh, I know this one, I saw it all the time! He's an ass because Tim used the Jeanne card in Love And War (you know, after mocking him about Claire, calling him chicken and doing the sound), because he told Tony he didn't rate his own team (you know, after Tim told him he didn't like being called Probie and Tony immediately pushed this button?). Also, he didn't tell Tony it was his father waiting for him.

Standing there not believing a word about Tony's therapist was also cruel, apparently, because he totally should respect him by ignoring his possible problem. You know, like when Tony mocked him about his fear of hight, filmed him and suggest to post it on Youtube and pushed him against the fence in About Face!

And also his attitude in Bounce. That I can accept, at least the scene where Tim didn't give him the photos. But I mostly blame bad writing and retcon, because they completely forgot that Ziva was the one not liking Tony being the leader when Tim called him Boss and loved the campfires, or forgot the plot of the episode involving Gibbs putting an innocent in prison.

I'm not saying Tim is an angel, but it would be nice if Tony's influence in most of his actions (against Tony) was acknowledged. And if they stopped pretending Tony is less mean than Tim or never goes too far, or "he's only joking!".

Yeah, I would be rolling on the ground if someone glued my freaking head on my desk at the point skin is hurt. Because when Tony wanted to do it again, Gibbs hit him with the reminder "Skin may no grow back this time.".

I think their buttons (that they both pushed and got over it pretty fast) are personal feelings for Tony (Gibbs, Jeanne, his father) and physical weakness and professional gap for Tim (before he got used to Probie/McNickname being an endearment term, pointing his fear of hight or his seasickness, Tony's attitude in Caged, pushing his no computer related talents and not being so happy with his time in Geekland.)

I guess it's why some think McGee is worse than Tony, because Tony's hot buttons are closest of below the belt (no pun intended) but that would means denying McGee the right to be hurt when his hot buttons are pushed, or less important.

TL!DR: Evil!Tony crushing Fragile!McGee is bad characterisation, Evil!McGee crushing Fragile!Tony is bad characterisation. Both boys can be cruel to each other but they're both not as bothered by it as the fandom and their respective fans think.

Like Sean said: That's the sibling, you know, rivalry. That's part of the way it works with them and deep down they love each other. That's honestly how I feel.

And we're making an episode right now we kind of touch on that, the Tony and McGee relationship and the, um, you know, um.....oddness of it, right where they are, you know, and that they can hurt each other's feelings and miss each other and that kind of stuff, so. I mean 'cos we've had instances where I've pulled him over a wall and he grabs me...and, you know, where Tony grabs me and he says, "I love you, McGee," you know? So.

[jack-infinitude.livejournal.com]

...I...I think I love you. :D

[schtroumph-c.livejournal.com]

But my problem is when they write Abby as some super jealous girl willing to do anything to have her way, or Tony so completely an asshole with no empathy whatsoever or, and this is my BIGGEST pet peeve, Tim feeling so put upon and alienated and abused and that that somehow makes him the angel of the show. It's ridiculous.

Don't forget Evil!Tim who only want to crush Tony or fic where Tony has his feelings so hurt he quit his job or cry in his pillow. I heard there was a fic where he goes and cry in Gibbs's arms because Kate hit him.

[harem-priestess.livejournal.com]

I heard there was a fic where he goes and cry in Gibbs's arms because Kate hit him.

REALLY? Yeesh. What show are they watching? I didn't realize Tony was 4 years old.

[watrox26.livejournal.com]

ha ha i so want to read this fic for the lols. xx