Where does Abby fit?

[colorguard28.livejournal.com]

OK, I have a question. And I'm not trying to start a flame war, just get some understanding of a characterization.

It seems like a lot of the Tim-centric fics I read, whether McNozzo or otherwise, are more anti-Abby than NCIS fics in general. And the ones that drive me crazy tend to be slash fics with Tim, usually paired with Tony. I know since Abby/McGee are canon, at least past canon, that she has to be dealt with somehow. But why take the "Abby abuses poor Timmy horribly" route? Although obviously there are lots of great T2 fics out there where Abby is their best friend, so not everybody goes that path.

Maybe it's just me, but I don't see evil Abby (no matter how many spikes on her collar). Anybody have any thoughts on where evil/selfish Abby comes from? Or am I just too much of a McAbby fan to be able to see it even when I'm putting Tim with Tony.

Comments

[colorguard28.livejournal.com]

I think your last sentence really hits on a lot of the differences among shippers. As the characters have grown and changed over the seasons, the dynamics between pretty much every combination of characters has changed along with that. So depending on when people started watching, the logical ships are different than the ones if you start watching at a different point in time. For example, I can easily see Tibbs as a pairing in early seasons, but later seasons are much more father/son. Same with Gabby. And depending on which ships seem logical, that can also affect how each character comes across - which can affect opinions of each character's motivations.

[mjg021182.livejournal.com]

Exactly!

This is also kind of why I don't really get the whole dom!Tim/sub!Tony stuff. I started watching nearly from the beginning, and in the early seasons, Tony was a genuinely confident character. Sure he sought approval a little bit, but only from Gibbs and nowhere near to the extent he does in later seasons. He was confident, capable and independent. McGee however, was incredibly nervous, boyish and clumsy.

Logically, I can see how people can see Tim being more dominant given how recent characterisations on the show come across (particularly season 7) but I still think of the characters very much in their original styles, even nostalgically prefer them.

Of course, this is getting way off topic now, lol!

While I'm roaming off-topic-land, I may as well ask, does anyone know of any fanfictions, that examine the changing natures of the characters of the show over the seasons? I would find that a very interesting read.

mj

[colorguard28.livejournal.com]

I think D/S Tim/Tony comes from Tony being such a subby personality. It doesn't have anything to do with him being confident so much as he has this need for that dominating personality to anchor him. You see that when Gibbs headslaps him and it settles him down, or how a word of praise makes his day. Frankly, I think that goes back to his daddy issues and being neglected as a kid, he has this overwhelming need for approval. He also has a huge need for physical contact - he touches people more than even Abby.

Also, Tim is always discussed as really nervous or geeky, but even in Sub Rosa he's shown as confident in areas where he's comfortable, like when he's exploring the computer in the bad guy's house. He manages to shut Tony down at the end when he tells him he got a tat, and he messes with Tony in Dead Man Talking when he fakes him out about the gun safety. Not to mention Abby's comment that he never disappoints her in bed. So while he's not the uber-dom Gibbs would be, I can see him being a dom, especially with somebody as subby as Tony. Just as Tony would get off on McGee's putting him in his place, McGee would get off on Tony's giving up control to him.

[mjg021182.livejournal.com]

Wow, ok, I just read through this post before posting, and it sounded snarky, which was not my intention, so I'm putting a disclaimer here at the start: I am NOT having a go at you, I think you're awesome, I just have a different opinion, and clearly am way more invested in my perception of the characters than I ever realised. Sorry about how it sounds. OK feel free to read now...

OK, I can sorta see it sometimes, but not really no. The examples you gave of Tim getting one up on Tony, to me, are examples as to why they're more equals than d/s at all. They tease each other, try to wig each other out a little, get upset with each other, and support each other in equal measures. I don't see it as one-sided, or one being more "in-charge" in the relationship than the other. I should probably say here, I don't really see Tony dominating Tim either.

I can TOTALLY see Tony being all subby for Gibbs, in a grownup, manly way of course. (Any fic making any of the characters into whiny needy overly-childish personalities doesn't work for me at all. The characters have way too much depth for that to be at all believable for me.) But I cannot see it with Tim, I just don't see their relationship in canon that way at all. I can see them *sharing* d/s experiences somewhat, taking turns? Equal opportunity lovers perhaps? But not this permanent dom/sub characterisation to their relationship.

Also, the touchy-feely stuff? I fail to see how that is even relevant to dom/sub characterisation. Being tactile or not has nothing to do with either dominance or submission. Gibbs is incredibly tactile too, if anyone cared to notice. And I'm not just talking about headslaps. There've been a number of incidences of him touching people, and not just Tony. Or Abby. There was a scene where someone becomes ill in interrogation (and it could be the damon werth ep, I'm a bit fuzzy) collapses and Gibbs is gently stroking his hair while waiting for medical help to arrive. Tony's need to touch doesn't make him needy, it's just one of his predominant ways of giving and receiving care and affection. Affirmation (and I include the light-hearted banter he craves in this category) is the other way. Again, doesn't make him needy, just his way of knowing he's loved.

Phew. OK. That was quite the mouthful. (Handful? Meh.)

mj